Parish Council - Meetings minutes

18 December 2008 - 8PM

HIGHWAYS & TRANSPORTATION

COMMITTEE

8.00 p.m. on 18 December 2008

Village Hall Committee Room

Minutes

Present: Councillors: Ken Huddart (Chairman), David Parks, Anthony Sheppard, Geoff Herbert, Jehan Master

Co-opted members: Brian Rhodes, Caroline Stevenson, Howard Mallinson

In attendance: Freda Collins- Parish Clerk

1. Apologies for absence

Cllr Jimmy Cartwright, who had a previous engagement.

These were accepted.

2. Declarations of Interest in items on the Agenda

Cllr Parks declared that he is a governor of Claygate Primary School.

3. Minutes of the last Meeting

The meetings of the previous meeting on the 8 Oct 2008 had been circulated. The following correction was made: - item 11b, the word ‘Kington’ was corrected to ‘Kingston’.

They were agreed and signed.

4. To report on the actioning of items from previous minutes.

Action AP16. Remit updated to encourage walking and cycling and circulated

Action AP17. Protruding sign stubs at The Causeway/Church Road protected in mortar.

Action AP18. Input to website not done

Action AP19. SCC invited to move bus stop in Hare Lane near Dalmore Avenue when asking for bus stop clearway.

Action AP20. Cricket Club parking in Dalmore Avenue put to Steve Wells, who promised to raise it. No response yet.

5.  Constitution of the Committee

No change

6.  Projects from the Brainstorming Session

i. Improve the Village Gateways.

The present design was the then EBC/SCC standard, CPC paid for the one at Woodstock Lane South, while the other two were supplied by EBC, the then agent for SCC. Subsequently SCC has moved and repaired the gateway in Woodstock Lane South, and repaired the others (Hare Lane Green repeatedly). If a proprietary design is agreed, it is likely that we shall be asked to finance the change and all future maintenance, which we must set against the aesthetic improvement. There are lots of designs around, and Carol Manley has suggested that we ask those in the village who design professionally to give us some input. Usually, improved designs tend to be brick-built. It was agreed that the Hare Lane entrance should remain in wood as this is often run into by vehicles. This was also agreed for the Stevens Lane entrance. It was noted that the improvements should not just be for aesthetic value but to improve traffic calming, particularly by incorporating a raised table; other suggested measures, including humps, alternative safety notices and speed cameras are unlikely to find favour. It was agreed that we should ask for a raised table at Stevens Lane. There is s106 money available.

AP21 Cllr Huddart to action

7.  Public Transport

a. Bus shelters & Routes

i. Cllr Steve Wells has been in touch with EBC regarding a shelter at the Youth Club bus stop, but resources are not currently available. The PC has offered a nominal contribution. A discussion took place as to total funding by CPC, but it is not known what design would be best and CPC do not want further on-going maintenance costs. This is a Highway Garden Site, so refurbishment should presumably proceed forthwith. Cllr Huddart has carried out the underground searches.

AP22 The Clerk to inform Cllr Manley

Pyracantha was suggested as a suitable plant for the garden as it is hardy and deters vandals.

AP23 The Clerk to speak to Cllr Manley

It was noted that there has been no vandalism of the shelter at the Recreation Ground since Cllr Parks repainted it.

ii. K3 extension to Coverts Road. Cllr Huddart expressed personal concerns that talking to London Buses about intricate alterations to the route could lead it to consider a range of possibilities, including that of abandoning the Claygate section of the route. This was an expression of risk, so those ignoring the warning must be responsible for any consequences. The PC wanted Cllr Wells further briefed on the risk, which Cllr Huddart attempted to do. He also passed on the PC decision that it would prefer to distance itself from the issue and let Cllr Wells do any talking direct to SCC. Cllr Huddart has tried to do this, but Cllr Wells is currently away till Monday. Michael Courtney still wants to discuss the matter.

Provision of service down Coverts Road using the bus from Esher is still being pursued.

It was noted that Cllr Mike Bennison is aware of the problem. It was agreed that Cllr Huddart should brief him on this subject.

AP24 Cllr Huddart to speak to Cllr Bennison

iii. Nothing has been heard about moving the bus stop in Hare Lane nearer to Dalmore Avenue.

AP25 Cllr Huddart to action

b. Trains

A smart-ticket card reader has been installed at Claygate station. It is presumed that the card will be similar to an Oyster and will replace paper tickets. It is expected that this card will eventually incorporate the Oyster. Gates have now been installed at Waterloo. It was agreed that Cllr Huddart will find out more about the new scheme.

AP26 Cllr Huddart to action

A copy of a letter sent to Ian Taylor MP from the Minister of State about the reduction of ticket office hours has been obtained by Cllr Huddart. The Dept of Transport has not just accepted the reductions proposed by SW Trains, but have asked them to evaluate the proposals in the light of the objections.

It was agreed that Cllr Huddart should write to Ian Taylor thanking him for his support in this matter.

AP27 Cllr Huddart to action

c. Claygate Station

The Clerk received a complaint that the white edge lining to the bridge steps is worn out, and that SWT will not respond. Cllr Huddart inspected and found that all but one of the steps still has white edge-lining visible all the way across, so the matter will not be pursued by CPC.

8. Liaison with SCC

1. Road maintenance & footpaths

Potholes reported by Cllr Huddart do get repaired. Larger problems dealt with include the significant repair to the dropped noisy cover in Hare Lane round the bend opposite the Foley Arms, and rodding out of the gully in Church Road at the recreation ground. SCC blames the improved drainage of the ground for slow-drainage of the gully, as more floodwater comes off the ground in a short time. The street drainage system at the Ground is poor as the system should have been designed so that surface drainage went straight to the main sewer and not to a road gully. Because of this design fault it will stay a problem.

Also the leak in Church Road at the Village Hall seems to have been successfully repaired by Thames Water within a week of a chasing report.

Slowing running gullies continue to give trouble because we had several days with over 10mm of rain (8 Nov, 10 Nov, 12 Dec 13 Dec). Also there has been no progress with attending to non-critical gullies, many of which are solidly blocked.

A ditch appeared in the crossover in the High Street which made it difficult for wheelchair users. Part of the ditch had been filled.

The Clerk sent a letter to SCC complaining about road repairs and street-lighting faults. A reply was received but it was from a junior Officer and concerned only the road repairs. It was agreed that this was poor treatment from SCC. The letter did include a promise to replace the white lining at The Causeway/Cornwall Avenue.

b. Highway tree replacement and maintenance, underground searches.

We are behind schedule, and Vanessa is doubtful as to whether to order 9 trees before Christmas but the planting could be affected by the holidays in January, or to arrange delivery in late January or early February. Cllr Huddart asked SCC to do the underground plant searches, but it declined on grounds of lack of resources; although it eventually provided contact information. Of the six plant owners, replies have been received from Government Pipelines, eDf and BT. Virgin wants to charge, which Cllr Huddart is resisting, since the others seem to regard a safety issue as free. It was noted that we never got the Virgin information in the past. Gas and Water responses are awaited. Post meeting note; Trees ordered 24 December for February planting; all search information received except Virgin.

Government Pipelines have found a pipe through the Glebelands Highway Garden Site, although someone from the Pipeline Company contacted the Clerk to say it was not in the area of interest – this will be OK if we can get his affiliation documented, since we can then shelter behind his clearance if our contractor (contrary to specification) excavates with machinery and we have an aviation spirit spillage. Post meeting note: further telephone contact with Government Pipelines’ contractor has clarified agreement that the pipeline goes through the site, but deep enough to allow HGS refurbishment safely.

There is also a 33kV cable route running in Coverts Road and Foley Road turning through the Highway Garden Site on the corner between these roads; which could prove to be a problem for the contractor and past a proposed highway tree in the verge opposite the Foley Arms. It is not anticipated that this is a serious risk since we hand dig for the trees. Post meeting note: eDF has provided more detailed information and offered a site visit at Foley Road, Coverts Road HGS.

As SCC will no longer carry out underground searches, Cllr Huddart is doing them. Many service providers will respond to email. It was agreed to find out whether SCC has a legal obligation to provide the information. CPC is lucky to have Cllr Huddart who is able to progress the searches independently, but other organisations may not have the knowledge of how to carry out the searches and, therefore, may not bother. This would then become a serous safety issue. It was agreed that this should be raised at an appropriate senior level.

AP28 Cllr Huddart to action.

c. Safe routes to school.

David Parks reported that EBC has agreed in principle to the rear route to Claygate Primary School, but it requires the route and construction materials to be changed. The route must go the far side of the containers and a barrier needs to be constructed across the hard-standing of the containers. Also, the school wants to use plastic-edged gravel which is an unsuitable surface. It should be tarmac and wide enough for a double-buggy.

d. Street lighting

This remains a maintenance problem with several long-standing faults such as 14 The Parade, the toffee apple in Hare Lane near the Old Village, one of twin lanterns at Red Lane/Stevens Lane and both bollards at Woodstock Lane South/Clayton Road. Recent replacements have been the zebra crossing spotlight, and the No Entry sign light outside Somerfields. There are several “all-day burners” which Cllr Huddart does not report since the cost of repeated attendances to deal with them must exceed the energy saved. However, concerned residents can report them to the new SCC number 0300 200 1003 (roads) or 03456 009 009. It was agreed that Cllr Huddart will report the list of lights out again. It was noted that Cllr Mike Bennison is aware that lack of repairs is an issue and is also trying to get eDF to carry out repairs. If nothing happens in response to Cllr Bennison's efforts then Cllr Huddart will contact eDF

AP29 Cllr Huddart to action.

A Claygate volunteer has looked at the broken light on the fountain on The Green and finds there is no power to the control unit. He also looked in all the signs and lights round The Green and could not find a source. Cllr Huddart believes that it is spliced directly into the main cable. Mike Bennison says he will request eDF to provide power and put the Fountain in light.

9. Village Design Statement

The VDS questionnaire is now in the process of being analysed. In response to the VDS questionnaire a letter has been received from Mrs Tatman of Loseberry Road. She notes that two locations in The Parade are a problem for wheel chair users; the slope outside Williams to cross Albany Crescent and the double kerb at Boyce Thorntons.

The comment from Cllr Huddart was that we agree fully that drivers are inconsiderate in parking across dropped kerbs.  New legislation makes this an offence, which can be enforced without further signing, resulting in Fixed Penalty tickets.  He has raised this with officers of EBC, which is responsible for enforcement of on-street parking restrictions on behalf of SCC.  They were not enthusiastic, but clearly this is something we should follow up with both authorities, so should be on agenda for next EBC liaison meeting.

 Cllr Huddart welcomes input from wheel chair users regarding difficulties in achieving their objectives, and has caused several improvements to be introduced such as flattening of the step.  He also looks for the best route, and a solution is sometimes for the wheel chair user to be made aware of it.  The dropped kerb at Williams is somewhat steep, so we could ask SCC to consider reducing the slope; it would however be treated as low priority.  The slope at Wilsons is ridiculously steep; unfortunately the carriageway and drainage levels there are unsatisfactory, so a request to improve the slope would be unsuccessful.  Modern policies could result in The Parade being converted to a shared surface, which would give credibility to the practice of walking in the road, to which Mrs. Tatman refers.

The double step problem at Boyce Thorntons was known from the outset, two decades ago.  Originally the office design failed to provide access for those with disabilities to the corner office and was rejected on this basis.  There was then local "wheeling and dealing" resulting in the present totally unsatisfactory solution.  This is one of the instances that confirms the inadvisability of talking to planning applicants.  The application should have been rejected outright until the developer submitted something satisfactory.  There is no prospect now of getting it changed.  But we could include a strengthening of access requirements in the Village Design Guide. It was agreed that Cllr Sheppard would reply to Mrs Tatman.

AP30 Cllr Sheppard to action.

  It was agreed that the highway report should be considered and revised if necessary.

10. Parking

i. Off-street parking charges including the proposal to block-book Hare Lane car park.

The brainstorming meeting noted that car parking would be discussed with Cllr Steve Wells, David Archer, Anthony Jeziorski, and Ken Huddart on 3 Dec 2008. David Parks was also present. There was no-one present to represent the shopkeepers. There was only brief discussion of renting space in the car parks; it may be further discussed early in January. It was noted that any rental cost might be of the order of the season ticket charge which is now over £400 p.a.; there was no real discussion as to whom the beneficiaries would be e.g. shoppers or shopkeepers, or how they would be selected. The brainstorming meeting noted that parish councils do have powers to run car parks, but this will not be considered, as taking over the running of the car park would involve huge maintenance contracts.

The meeting reiterated the problems of EBC’s new high charges for parking, particularly the unrealistic charge of £4 all day and related season ticket charge. The meeting restated the Claygate wish for a free initial period. This is relevant to the information that EBC has provided for us from the ticket machines for selected four-month periods, which Cllr Huddart has analysed and circulated. It shows that EBC’s assessment of revenue is generally accurate. Our strongest grounds are therefore the unrealistic all-day charge and to request an initial free period. It was noted that the free hour would cost EBC in revenue, but it was agreed that EBC should be providing a service. It s not known what revenue is obtained from fines.

Fortunately when the meeting visited the Old Village car park it was packed, which may assist if we have to fight the consultant’s suggestion of selling it.

ii. On-street issues.

Reinstatement of the peak hour control at 15-17 Albany Crescent was advertised on 19 November, so there is a reasonable chance that it will be implemented in the New Year.

It was noted that there is a Traffic Order for a double yellow line on Hare Lane between Somerfields and the car park. The existing signage is not lawful. Cllr Parks spoke to the man painting the roads lines and he says he will get the correct lines painted.

The 3 Dec meeting dealt mostly with the on-street situation, viewing parking in Albany Crescent, The Parade, Hare Lane, The Avenue and Station Road. It became clear that Anthony Jeziorski was assessing this as a means to move cars into his car parks to raise revenue; he went as far as to suggest on-street parking charges. David Archer found the Esher CPZ to have been successful and wanted to replicate it across the Borough, including Claygate. We have always agreed that some places need CPZs. However, the meeting did produce a novel suggestion of a double yellow line on the south side of The Parade, which would be easier to understand; loading and disabled parking would be permitted; Cllr Huddart recommends supporting this proposal. After a discussion it was agreed that a double yellow line would not be appropriate as it would prevent parking in the evening when there is no access problem. It was agreed that the single yellow is the correct signage. We also reiterated our requests for more one-hour bays on the east side of Albany Crescent going up to Althlone which would provide abut 14 bays, and for the 8-9.30 controls to be changed to a period in the middle of the day. This was agreed by both CPC and EBC and was endorsed by the meeting.

A letter has been received form John Hornby who is unhappy about the parking of commercial vehicles in residential roads. He asked for a bye-law to control this, as he feels that the parking of such vehicles downgrades a residential area. The problem areas include Beaconsfield Road, Vale Road, Coverts Road and Claremont Road opposite Beaconsfield Road. It was agreed that commercial vehicles should not be used to store goods on the highway, but there is not a problem with residents parking their own vehicles outside their own houses. It was agreed not to pursue this matter.

AP31 Cllr Huddart to respond.

11. Traffic Calming

11.1There is nothing to report on our primary proposal of a traffic calming scheme in Hare Lane covering the junctions with Foley Road and The Parade.

11.2 Steve Wells continues to be the champion for the advisory 20mph zone between Old Claygate Lane (included) and Oaken Lane (excluded), centred on Telegraph Lane. The PC has offered to fund the signs. Cllr Huddart had hoped that EBC could help using its contractor for street nameplates, but it has declined. They have provided contact information, so Cllr Huddart is looking for other quotations. EBC sees SCC cooperation as being essential. We have received comment from a resident of Oaken Drive that the scheme would be ineffective and environmentally intrusive, and that she has never been consulted on it. It is believed such views could be held quite widely. Hence the scheme should be subject to consultation of all residents in its area of coverage. SCC will not undertake such consultation as it is not their scheme. Cllr Wells may be able to undertake this action. It was suggested that an alternative proposal should be considered which excludes the area of The Roundway, Oaken Drive and Woodbourne Drive. It was agreed that Telegraph Lane is the only road that requires signposting, but that options should be included in the consultation.

11.3 There will soon be a change to the Traffic Signs Regulations and Cllr Huddart believes that there will be a move to remove unnecessary signs and that Councils will try to minimise new signage. There will have to be real problem before a sign will be erected.

11.4 Cllr Huddart has looked at published local standards about horse warning signs. There is no limitation regarding speed limits. Authorities try to prevent the provision of non-essential signs, and try to remove them when replacement is suggested. A typical standard requires that they should be provided only if:-

i. there are plenty of horses, which applies to Telegraph Lane,

ii. where visibility is below current standards, which does not apply to Telegraph Lane,

iii. where the horses are crossing the traffic route. This again does not apply to Telegraph Lane as the horses go along the route with the traffic.

There fore it was agreed that signs in Telegraph Lane would not be justified by such standards.

It was agreed, however, that a horses crossing sign in Red Lane where the horses cross to Common Road would be useful.

AP32 Cllr Huddart to look n to this.

12. Bridleway Proposals & Rights of Way

Cllr Huddart carried out a site visit and on 31 October submitted an illustrated request to SCC Rights of Way to maintain FP31, alongside Woodstock Lane South and BW32 from Bridle Way to Chessington. EBC could also be involved as Jimmy Cartwright was on the copy list, regarding the horse ride element of FP31. No responses have yet been received. Cllr Huddart will now chase this matter.

AP33 Cllr Huddart to chase Anne Woods.

13. Street Signage

It was noted that some of the old iron street nameplates have been replaced and those which had been graffitied have been cleaned.

14. Proposed scheme for Traffic Control in the High Street

David Saunders has responded at length to the Focus proposal of a crossing of the High Street. His key suggestion is that the four approaches at Hare Lane, Oaken Lane, Church Road and The Green, should be controlled by traffic signals, which should apply shuttle working to the High Street. He proposes that two signals at Hare Lane and Oaken Lane, should be green simultaneously, leaving the conflict to be sorted out by the mini-roundabout which would remain. This is contrary to current standards and would never be sanctioned, since drivers could not judge which control was relevant. However, a superficially similar arrangement is commonplace at signalled junctions where a left turning lane, separated by a triangular island with a pedestrian crossing, then gives way to the crossing traffic emerging from the junctions. To replicate this at the High Street, one would have to set up advance signals e.g. pedestrian crossings of Hare Lane AND Oaken Lane. Cllr Huddart does not think this would work, or that the environmental intrusion would be accepted, but the idea is interesting. The delay to all traffic could do something to dissuade through drivers in the evening peak.

Other suggestions mostly repeat what we have already heard, and ignore the achievement of easier crossing of the High Street produced by the current traffic calming pattern. A novel twist is that, if the High Street had a 20mph speed limit, which is obviously unnecessary as such, the formal sight-line requirements for a pedestrian crossing would be reduced, thus removing one of the objections to it.

A discussion of the scheme took place and another suggestion was to have traffic lights without the roundabouts, but the clearance times would be large. It was agreed not to pursue this scheme. Cllr Huddart will reply to David Saunders.

AP34 Cllr Huddart to action.

15. Membership of ‘Campaign for Better Transport’

Following a recommendation from SCAPTC that Parish Councils should not be affiliated to campaigning bodies; the PC has cancelled its membership of the Campaign for Better Transport (previously Transport 2000). A letter has been received from this organisation asking what level of communication we require. It was agreed that we should ask them to continue sending the newsletter until our subscription runs out.

AP35 The Clerk to reply

The PC thought that an individual should enrol and circulate the documents. Cllr Huddart agreed to accept the burden of membership despite his lack of enthusiasm in supporting extremism or in creating yet more circulating paper.

16. Website

It was agreed that a piece about the new advisory 20mph signs in Telegraph Lane should be put on the website. It was agreed that Cllrs Huddart and Wells should collaborate on this article.

AP36 Cllrs Wells & Huddart to action.

17. Matters for Information Only

17.1 It was noted that an item for bus shelter maintenance at the Recreation Ground was included in the budget for this Committee, but the item for Bridleway maintenance was removed as it is not sure if SCC will have funds.

17.2 It was noted that there was an accident in Oaken Lane last Friday with Police attendance and the road being closed. There are no further details.

18. Date and place of the next meeting

The next meeting will be at 8.00pm on 12 Feb 2009 in the Village Hall Committee Room.

Signed………………………………………………..as a true and fair record of the meeting. Date……………………………

 

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