Parish Council - Meetings minutes

20 August 2009 - 8pm

 

HIGHWAYS & TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE

8.00 p.m. on 20 August 2009

Village Hall Committee Room

Minutes

 

Present:          Councillors -   Ken Huddart (Chairman), David Parks, Geoff Herbert, Anthony Sheppard

            Co-opted members- Brian Rhodes, David Cowie, Caroline Stevenson

 

In attendance:  Parish Clerk- Freda Collins

                                                Andrew Patterson- Chair of the Governors of Claygate School

 

1.      Apologies for absence

Cllr Jimmy Cartwright who was on holiday.

These were accepted.

It was noted that Jehan Master has resigned from the Parish Council because of ill-health. The meeting agreed that he had made a valuable contribution to the Committee.

 

2.      Declarations of Interest in items on the Agenda

Cllr Parks declared that he is a Governor of Claygate Primary School.

           

3.      Election of Vice Chairman

Geoff Herbert was nominated by Ken Huddart.

There being no other nominees, Geoff Herbert was declared Vice Chairman. He was congratulated.

 

4.      Constitution of the Committee

No change

 

5.      Minutes of the last Meeting

The minutes of the previous meeting on the 25 June 2009 had been circulated. Two corrections were made:-

            i. Jehan Master was away on business, not holiday.

            ii. in 17.2, the word ‘by’ was struck out and the words ‘and in addition’ were added. The sentence should now read - He hopes to get the two linked together and in addition a family route around the village.

They were then agreed and signed.

 

The Chairman changed the order of the agenda in order to take item 9c

 

Safe routes to school, including Dalmore Avenue parking. 

The new path to Claygate Primary School has been well received by pupils, parents and staff.  Residents of Dalmore Avenue are less pleased. The road is narrow and only leads to resident’s houses and the Recreation Ground; there is no turning area. Some parents are driving down Dalmore Avenue to drop off their children and then the vehicles have to turn, causing damage to verges and potential danger to pedestrians.

Cllr Parks has been in contact with the Headteacher, who intends to contact Lynne Howard of SCC.

The present best proposal is for the Hare Lane (Old Village) car park to allow for free parking across the afternoon pick-up time (morning drop-off time is already free). Children could be dropped off in the car park and walk the rest of the way, with or without parents as there are no roads to cross. Ward Councillors have already been approached. Cllrs Steve Wells and Michael Courtney have been in contact with John Strachan of EBC, which may be the best approach, since the car park is managed by and provides revenue to EBC. John Strachan has agreed that, if necessary, he will enforce the dropped kerb and obstruction laws.

Despite the free use of the car park during the morning drop-off, some parents are still driving down Dalmore Avenue, so a ‘No turning’ sign may be needed at the entrance to the road. It has no legal standing, but may deter. 

Andrew Paterson was then invited to address the meeting.

There is a history of problems of access to the school, but it is hoped that the new entrance will be a success. It will cost in the order of £40,000, so it must work. The children love the new way to school.  Prior to the new gate opening, the Headteacher circulated a letter asking parents not to drive and turn in Dalmore Avenue. The Caretaker was used to prevent parents driving down the Foley entrance access to the school, so a similar solution may be required at Dalmore Avenue. The Headteacher is prepared to ‘name and shame’ the parents who disregard the request not to use Dalmore Avenue. Lynne Howard does the school travel plans and has funding so may be able to assist; she may be able to organise a walking bus. The village PCSO also has helped in Foley Road so may be able to help in Dalmore Avenue.

It was agreed the following solutions would be pursued:-

i. another letter to parents from the Headteacher

            ii. Cllr Huddart to contact Lynne Howard.

            iii. Cllr Huddart to speak to EBC regarding an easement on car park charges from 3 to 4pm

            iv. Cllr Herbert to speak to PC Danny Bond about Police assistance.

v. Cllr Huddart to investigate a ‘No turning’ sign. He will speak to Frank Apicella about SCC providing the sign. It may be possible to act quickly as the sign should not need a traffic order. If SCC does not have funding then CPC will pay.

The actions will be carried out as quickly as possible as the school goes back on 3 Sept.

Andrew Paterson will report back after a discussion with Lynne Howard.

AP8 Cllrs to action as above.

 

Andrew Paterson then left the meeting and the correct order of the agenda was resumed.

 

6.      To report on the actioning of items from previous minutes.

AP1 re AP38.  Maintenance of Torrington Lodge car park entrance.  This has been completely resurfaced

AP2 Replacement highway trees.  Coverts Road, see below; Denman Drive, David Cowie to report.

AP3 Cycle parking in The Parade.  Re. Sustrans, Cllr Parks and David Cowie to report.  Railway station, see below. David has not yet contacted Sustrans-action ongoing. The cycle stand in The Parade near Hare Lane has been repaired.

AP4 Removed parking control in Albany /Crescent.  Cllr Parks to report SCC provision of information and intention to replace.  Other sites, see below. Cllr Parks believes the reason for the problems with this matter was that the contractors were using an old, superseded order.

AP5 Brookfield Gardens street nameplate.    Now replaced; the delay was because the sign at the wrong end of Brookfield Gardens was replaced. It was noted that Torrington Close, which is a private road, has had new street nameplates.

AP6 Redundant poles.  Claygate in Bloom arranged for SCC to remove several, and also to straighten the waiting and loading restriction in The Green. A redundant pole near the ‘Turn Left’ sign at the Day Centre has been noted.

AP7 Input to website.  Not done, but successful input to VDS and Courier.

 

7.       To Review the Data from the VDS Questionnaire.

 The consultation ends 14 Sept 2009. The earlier Highways & Transportation VDS input was based on the questionnaire and included appropriate references to the questions raised about speeding, amount of traffic etc; which are in the current version.

More mention could be made of cycling, although the responses to the cycling questions were evenly divided. It was agreed that David Cowie would look at the data on cycling and make comment.

AP9 David Cowie to action.

Many residents are concerned that cyclists use the pavements, but there are areas in the village where it is dangerous to cycle on the road i.e. at the narrow part of Hare Lane. It is illegal to ride on the pavement, but the Police have stated that they will not enforce minor infringements. It was agreed that cyclists must behave responsibly and realise that pedestrians have the right of way. It was noted that there are still too many cyclists riding at dusk without lights.

 

8.     Public Transport

 

a. Bus shelters & Routes

Jem Salter, who lives in Woodbourne Drive, reported that when the southbound bus stop was recently renewed it was moved slightly further North, which makes it closer to the northbound bus stop.  He reports that, when buses are simultaneously stopped, traffic in Oaken Lane and Woodbourne Drive is held up.  Cllr Huddart responded that Oaken Lane traffic needed slowing down, and has taken no formal action.

 

      b. Trains

Nothing further has been heard about electronic gates. SWT is still discussing this.

The track renovations have been completed.

 

c. Claygate Station

Claygate in Bloom was in contact with a SWT officer and learnt of a scheme to adopt stations.  SWT would improve the signage, replace the red platform benches and help with physical work and resources.  It did indeed provide a clear-up team for the day, which was very welcome.

Cllr Huddart has spoken to Phil Dominey, the Stakeholder Manager, who is interested in law and order. He confirms that SWT will ‘adopt’ a station in partnership with a recognised body to improve the station. This should be reported at the Environment meetings. As SWT will not display the ‘free parking’ arrangement, this matter could be part of the ‘adoption’ agreement. We could also consider asking for extra cycle parking facilities to be provided.

Carl Baldwin is our new station manager.9.     Liaison with SCC

 

a. Road Maintenance and Footpaths

Cllr Huddart has continued to report defects, mainly involving potholes, overhanging vegetation and street lighting; a recent substantial batch was in preparation for a helpful tour with Mike Bennison and a Surrey CHO.  He has 25 new responses and reference numbers, mainly for potholes, road markings and encroaching vegetation.  Plenty of potholes attract yellow paint, and many of these get filled; although this is apparent only if one is checking up on previous reports.  Difficult gullies are cleaned out, apparently quite easily, only when they attract special mention or are directly responsible for flooding.

It was noted that there are areas where lights are almost totally obscured by vegetation, such as the alleyway between the surgery and The Roundway.

Cornwall Avenue is a disgrace with overgrowing vegetation, but this was one of the places visited by Cllrs Huddart and Bennsion with the CHO.

At Woodstock Lane South/Clayton Road junction, the sightlines are obscured by vegetation, as are some of the road signs along the road.

The manholes in the Woodstock Lane underpass have now been cemented in.

It was noted that some of the yellow paint around potholes wears off before the repairs are carried out.

It was noted that many SCC repairs are temporary, they only make safe.

Some potholes are repaired however, not so with street lighting faults. It is known that the PFI project is due to start in January, so minimal repairs or replacements are being carried out at the moment.

CPC has been invited to make comment on the SCC National Highway and Transportation Network. Cllr Huddart has been nominated to make a reply on behalf of CPC.

AP10 Cllr Huddart to action.

 

b. Replacement Highway Trees

The Tree Wardens, local representatives and Cllr Huddart inspected Coverts Road and Foxwarren for potential sites to plant highway trees.  They found many sites, which need to be put on a plan and circulated to all residents for comment.  The local representatives, with assistance from the Tree Wardens, will do this. Those in Foxwarren are straightforwardly in verges, so a programme can be created once sites are cleared.  Those in Coverts Road are mostly in asphalt, so a new, and much more expensive, way of working will be required. It is not known what funding will be needed.  Cllr Huddart has sought information on underground services, but various problems have meant that he has only half of it. eDF has a major 33kv cable on the east side of the road and this is the side with the most potential space for trees.

David Cowie reported that there is no need for a tree in Denham Drive, but one could be planted in Langbourne Drive.

We have had a request for pollarding trees in Claremont Road and Aston Road.  The greater need is in Foley Road, where we have to consider a plan of action. It was agreed that pollarding will be a difficult programme to launch, so it will be better to press SCC to carry it out. If we did take on tree maintenance we would require a grant from SCC. Pollarding is expensive, so we must not drift into carrying out work that SCC should do.

It was noted that an oak tree in the village has a growth of honey fungus. SCC will fell it if we inform them. We cannot treat it as the chemical needed to treat the disease can only be used by a trained horticulturalist. It was agreed that we cannot put into action our own process i.e. paying for it to be treated, if this is against SCC policy. Cllr Sheppard will speak to the Tree Wardens about the tree.

AP11 Cllr Sheppard to action.

 

            d.  Safe Routes to School

          Already dealt with

 

e. Street Lighting

Skanska, formerly Morrisons, has the contract for the PFI.

Cllr Huddart has continued to report defects, but few of these attract reference numbers or remedial action.  Now that SCC is moving towards the PFI contract for street lighting refurbishment, all possible action is being deferred into that contract. It was agreed that we cannot wait for the PFI to begin before we get any repairs; the project may be delayed starting, then may take 5 years to complete. It was agreed to escalate this issue into the political area. It was agreed to write a letter or representation to the Sept Local Committee listing those lights which are out and which constitute a safety hazard. The new Chairman, Margaret Hicks, is very effective and it is hoped that we will be provided with a schedule for the repairs. In theory, we should receive a response from the next meeting.

AP12 Cllr Sheppard to check on procedures and Cllr Huddart to draft letter.

The fountain is no longer lit.  The equipment gets warm, so the power is on. Cllr Huddart is arranging for an electrician as we agreed with eDF that CPC would be responsible for maintenance.

It was noted that the lamppost at 41 Telegraph Lane has been hit. David Cowie will investigate to see if the light is broken.

AP13 David Cowie to action.

           

10.    Village Design Statement

Already dealt with

 

11.    Parking

Cllr Ken Huddart has produced a paper on parking controls in Claygate

 

For some years, we have been building up a list of policies and requests, which we have put to Surrey C.C. and Elmbridge B.C. on behalf of Claygate P.C.  This note identifies what these are.  The numbered policies have previously been put to Surrey C.C. (most recently at a meeting in Esher on 21 April 2009) and Elmbridge B.C.  It is time that they were assembled in a single document, and ratified by Claygate P.C.

 

We do not have a simple agreement on desirable overall on-street parking controls, and it is unlikely that a consensus is available at this juncture.  On the one hand, those living just outside the area of existing controls, and affected by commuter or schools parking, would probably prefer controls in their roads.  On the other hand, such extension of controls would spread irreversibly so that a large part of Claygate would be involved, so that many residents would have their freedom restricted.  The impact of such extensions can be seen in Fleece Road (Thames Ditton, Surbiton CPC), Tilt Road (Stoke D’Abernon controlled area), the present Weybridge CPC extensions, and Claremont Lane (solidly parked as a result of Esher Green CPC).

 

Off-street, we have long accepted charges in Torrington Road car park, since commuter parkers previously dominated it, and shoppers could not find spaces.  We have reluctantly accepted moderate increases in these charges, and been provided evidence by Elmbridge B.C. that these increase income without sacrificing patronage;  but we are opposed to charges that empty the car parks onto the streets, thus failing to provide a proper service to shoppers, shop-keepers, commuters and residents.  Hence:

 

1.       We oppose the recent increase of all-day parking charges to £4 for both Claygate car parks.

2.       We oppose the imposition of charges in the Hare Lane (Old Village) car park, since this normally had adequate capacity for all demands.

3.       We request that there should be an initial free-of-charge period in the car parks, so as to avoid deterrence for minor purchases.

 

On-street:

 

1.       We oppose (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08) on-street parking charges.

2.       We request (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08) additional short term (one-hour) parking bays in Albany Crescent, suggesting that fourteen would be available on the west side between The Parade and Athlone (we previously requested eight such bays between The Parade and the entrance to The Willows).

3.       We suggest (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08) that the peak hour controls should be moved from 0800-0930 to an hour or so in the middle of the day.  This gives better control of commuter parking, and hence better availability of parking to others, and allows better non-commuter parking during the morning peak hour.  Elmbridge B.C. officers agree that their enforcement (on behalf of Surrey C.C.) would be easier at this time.

4.       We request (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08) implementation of a bus-stop clearway in Hare Lane near Dalmore Avenue.  This was agreed by Surrey C.C. officers but has not been formally approved or implemented.

5.       We request (Feb 08) reinstatement of the peak hour parking control on the east side of Albany Crescent.  This was formally approved and implemented in Spring 2002, but was wrongly deleted by Surrey C.C. in January 2008 and, despite being re-advertised in Spring 2009, has still not been implemented.  It is necessary to avoid hazards of the blind bend.

6.       We request short double yellow line controls:

6.1    Corner Church Road/Coverts Road recreation ground side (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08).   Dangerous parking on the bend when recreation ground in use, especially Sunday mornings when many teams are playing. Buses have difficulty negotiating the bend and entering the bus bay.

6.2    Corner Church Road with The Causeway (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08).  Dangerous parking as above.

6.3    Corner Elm Road with The Green opposite side to youth club (to Frank Apicella, 19 Mar 08).  Parking near the corner obstructs vision and causes congestion.  Replace the existing white line hatching (which is frequently ignored) with a permanent parking restriction.

6.4    Corner Hare Lane/Loseberry Road (to John Pateman, SCC Parking Officer, meeting 21 Apr 09).  Commuter parking obstructs sightlines.

6.5    Corner Hare Lane/The Avenue (to John Pateman, meeting 21 Apr 09).  Commuter parking hazardous for traffic turning left into The Avenue.

 

Cllr Huddart asked the Committee to endorse the numbered items-AGREED.

Cllr Margaret Hicks has asked for input to go forward to a review of parking controls. It was agreed that Cllr Parks should forward the above paper.

Cllr Huddart will forward to John Pateman

AP14 Cllrs Parks & Huddart to action.

 

12.    Traffic Calming

12.1 At the last Surrey (Elmbridge) Local Committee, David Parks spoke out about the lack of SCC’s remedial action, particularly regarding road markings.  Cllr Margaret Hicks, Chair of the Local Committee, arranged a discussion with him and Malcolm Mackenzie.  As a result, Margaret Hicks has a adopted a proposal for an advisory 20mph zone for the whole of Claygate, protected by improved facilities at the existing three gateway sites. She says that she has agreement from SCC officers and Police.

 

Pilot scheme for village speed calming

 

Following the Surrey County Council Leader’s investing £1m in a one off scheme to tackle speeding on the roads of Surrey I would like to propose a pilot scheme which meets the ambitions of the Leader and concerns of the people of Claygate in Elmbridge.

Claygate enjoys the opportunity of having the only Parish Council in Elmbridge and as such carries out surveys and annual meetings to listen to the residents.    Top of the list is the need to tackle the speed of traffic traversing the village as well as local users.

Claygate is a village within an urban setting and could be likened to any village within a rural setting.    Claygate enjoys a wide range of local shops, a railway station and a primary school.

Claygate has only three roads that are points of entry into the village.   These are Oaken Lane, Hare Lane and Woodstock Lane.

The proposal is at the points of entry that are already marked with off road “village gates” that raised platforms across the road are installed thus slowing down the traffic.    A 20 mph speed limit would be introduced within the enclosed area.

The residents would like all the interactive speed signs to be removed from within the area and at danger sites signs indicating sharp bends, etc.

To manage the calmed roads the people of Claygate would not expect the police to enforce speed limits.    The Parish Council would take on board the communication with all of the residents of Claygate and get their buy in.    However, there are opportunities, using the finances given by the Leader, for residents to set up schemes to control speeding, such as speed guns.

I would like to thank Malcolm McKenzie and David Parks for meeting with me and discussing ways in which speed can be controlled in Claygate.    It is clear that there is a willingness within the Claygate community to succeed in reducing speeding on their roads.

I see this as a pilot for all villages in Surrey to reduce speeds down to 20 mph and fitting with strategic transport policy.

 

Margaret Hicks believes she will receive support form Andrew Povey for a ‘test village’, but both CPC and Ward Councillors must be in agreement. Despite an email between the EBC Ward Councillors that they would prefer to stay with their earlier proposal of a 20mph zone covering just the Telegraph Lane area, since this is where they perceive a need, Councillor Wells communicated shortly before the H&T meeting that Margaret Hicks’ proposal should be supported.

 

A discussion took place and the following points were made:-

i. It covers the roads in Claygate where speeds and accidents are a problem e.g. Hare Lane, Oaken Lane and Red Lane, but omits Woodstock Lane South.  It is therefore currently superior to the Telegraph Lane 20mph proposal, which has been criticised for lack of accidents and actual speeds.  It is also currently superior to our own proposal of raised junctions in Hare Lane at The Parade and Foley Road, which has been stalled by lack of SCC finance and attitude to any traffic calming.

ii. Although the 20mph speed limit will not be enforced, once the 20mph zone is in place, we could then take any opportunities that arise for enhancing the enforcement e.g. by visible speed measurement activity, and by raised junctions and crossings at the Hare Lane sites and in Oaken Lane, opposite Torrington Road.  The existence of the 20mph zone would permit these measures to be introduced at specific points of need, without for example having to fill Oaken Lane with a bus-defying succession of closely spaced cushions. 

iii. In Wimbledon all the major roads are 30mph and all side roads are 20mph.

iv. Although these measures are meant to reduce speed, it may also deter some through traffic as the route thorough the village will take longer.

v. It may be worthwhile repeating Malcolm’s survey.

vi. Margaret Hicks’ proposal requires that CPC should undertake the necessary communication with the people of Claygate, which may need funding.

vii. Part of the proposal is for the existing Vehicle Actuated Signs to be removed. Originally such signs were shown to reduce speeds and accidents, but that was at the earliest sites, where conditions were more extreme.  Proliferation of such signs so as to meet local requests has greatly reduced their impact, particularly, as with the one outside the Scout Centre; they are wrongly set to operate even for vehicles within the speed limit.  Within a 20mph zone they may be seen as having more purpose.

 

It was AGREED that Margaret Hicks’ initiative is an opportunity that we must accept:-

i. residents are worried about traffic speed, so CPC would be seen to be doing something about the problem.

ii. the signs could be backed by a visible Speedwatch campaign and/or some VARs with the smiling faces.

iii. it will be good publicity for the village –‘Claygate takes the initiative to support a pilot village safety zone with a 20mph overall speed limit’. 

 

11.2 Victoria Lord’s duly presented her petition to the Surrey (Elmbridge) Local Committee.  In accordance with the Committee’s procedure, no effective comment was made.  Because of the impact of holidays, the response report will be put to the December meeting of the Committee.  The presentation included a general statement of support by CPC, which went beyond the more limited support agreed at the last H&T Committee.

 

13.   Cycling

13.1 David Cowie’s presentation at The Village Show was well received, and resulted in requests for information.

13.2 A cycle link from the village to Hampton Court will not be possible because of the two large roundabouts.

13.3 David would like a contact address on the website.

13.4 David intends to join the EA Cycle Forum which meets 3 times per year in Leatherhead.

13.5 There were requests at the Flower Show for cycle maps, which are now out of print. This could be a matter to be raised at the next EA Cycle Forum.  It may be possible to print the maps as a PDF. It is possible to see an interactive map at the moment, so a link from the Claygate website could be arranged.

13.6 David looked at the feasibility of installing a cycle lane on the east side of Woodstock Lane South, but this would mean cutting down about 10 trees to get the required 1.5m width. A track could be installed where the trees are spared, but cyclists would have to manoeuvre around them. In order to get a footway with permission for cyclist SCC would need to make an order.

 

14.   Bridleway Proposals & Rights of Way

An application has been submitted to have gates across both ends of Esher Park Avenue.  The proposal includes provision for the gates to open whenever a vehicle approaches.  This provision is presumably intended to counter suggestions that the proposal would prevent use of a highway established by continuous use.  A similar proposal arose some 30 years ago, and was opposed by the CVRA.  The result was the erection of gates, which were only closed across half of the road. It is likely that roads adjacent to Esher Park Avenue will follow the lead, so there is the possibility that the whole area will be gated.

The legislation relating to deemed highway use may have changed recently, so that such use will in the future not be admitted evidence to create or maintain a highway for motorised vehicles, in which case it will be necessary to make an application to put the road on the Defined Network.

There was a discussion about what will be the effect on Claygate.  Clearly those Claygate residents who drive to Esher library through Esher Park Avenue will be disadvantaged; provided the gates do open for vehicles, the impact should be slight.  Those residents who use Esher Park Avenue (or neighbouring roads) to reach Esher or the Portsmouth Road may be deterred, and hence keep more to the main roads, which is what highway planners would wish anyhow.  Drivers emerging from Esher Park Avenue to beat the queue for the traffic lights may be affected, but the traffic lights would function better if they did not do so.  Congestion at these traffic lights contributes to the pressures that create the considerable NEbound through traffic movement in the p.m. peak through Claygate.  Removal of the rat-run is likely on balance to reduce the congestion and hence the pressure to drive through Claygate.

It was agreed that we would not comment on the closing of the road way, but that we object to the closure of the cycling and pedestrian use, as this is a safe route for Claygate residents to get to Esher.

It was noted that the Planning Committee decided that we would inform Claygate residents of the application so that they are able to make their views known to EBC.

      AP15 The Clerk to make comment to EBC.

            Post meeting note; The application has been refused

 

15.   Street Signage

15.1 EBC continues to replace defective signs and it was agreed that they are very successful. There was a delay with replacement of the Brookfield Gardens sign at the junction with Telegraph Lane as the sign at the wrong end of Brookfield Gardens was replaced.

 

16. Website

It was agreed to include a piece on the proposed 20mph village speed limit and some input about cycling

AP16  Cllr Huddart to action.

     

17.   Matters for Information Only

None

 

18.   Date and place of the next meeting

 

The next meeting will be at 8.00pm on 22 October 2008 in the Village Hall Committee Room.

 

 

Signed………………………………………………..as a true and fair record of the meeting. Date……………………………

 

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